Progression does not mean left behind
After another very fun guild meeting with taking down 25 man OS right after, a group of us started trying to shape our new 10 man group. The next day people logging on see a raid forming and start feeling automatically left behind.
Our guild has 3 speeds of players.
Serious raiders that like to get content done but don’t want to deal with the annoyance of a “hardcore raiding guild” that will mistreat their members at the first mistake or kick them out for a no show.
Casual raiders that want to raid, but don’t have the time to commit to set raid days and times.
Last but not least we have the people that play and are not interested on the raiding aspect of the game.
The problem arises when someone from the casual group wants to go do what the serious raiders want to do, but don’t get a spot on a run that they have the time for. For the most part this does not become an issue because several of our raiders are used to pugging and will gladly step aside if a guildie wants to go on a run. It becomes an issue the moment we start saying progression because it means that we are making that raid with the best players available in an attempt at doing slightly more challenging content.
We have several ideas on how to make everyone feel included, but for now we are settling for two 10 mans. One we are calling our progression 10 man which will be doing higher content ToC, TogC, ICC and hard modes. The other one (or two others since we now have plenty of extra 80 alts) will concentrate on gearing people and just getting people familiar with raiding if they are new in Naxx, OS, Vault and Ulduar.
Honjuder had the great idea that we devote one 10 man per day starting on Tuesday to the weekly raid. We will still wait for the schedule to be ironed out and put in game hopefully before the end of this week.
Froto has stepped up to lead our more serious raiders and I will be using my alt to lead other raids as needed. Since some of the content will not intersect, I might even be able to run some of the gearing runs. Simply sign up for the runs and be ready to show us what you can do. The raids at the progression level will be formed to have the best chance to succeed.
So check out the calendar in game for upcoming events and be part of the fun! The key to a raid besides showing up is being a good team player.
Also see one of the officers if you want to schedule other events, we are going to go on another bear run in the coming weeks.
Ding!
Hollogos hit 80 this weekend, and weird enough he actually did it in a Battle Ground. This is my second WoW toon to reach the current 80 cap, and the first one I did for myself rather than what was more needed. I have created and deleted about 6 characters now, I start playing them and the grind gets boring. I even got a DK somewhat leveled, but when we were able to create horde toons on the same server, I created a DK to help the lowbees run through stuff. Now that toon as well as the druid I created there sit idle. I seem to be a one toon a time kind of person and have not quite caught the altoholic addiction that McTeague is the worst sufferer of, but some of our other guildies are not far behind with 3 or more 80s.
Leveling a priest in BC was rough. I remember putting the toon aside and leveling my hunter because of just the squishiness of the priest. Also the grind just seemed pointless and not very productive. Then WotLK came out and the race to get Logtar to 80 left the priest all but forgotten and third fiddle to the DK I created. He was not really touched until our progression was stagnant and I needed to make more money. I started leveling his inscription and little by little he started actually being useful.
My interest on him started to pick up when we started to receive experience while in BGs. I think I got 10 easy levels that way, but it got nerfed. Then I ventured into the healing side of things and found it very interesting and challenging in a good way. Thanks to some of those once a week healing excursions I actually met some of our guildies. I enjoyed it, but it was not a full time job… almost like a hobbie. He sat at 50 for a long time, and I would log in and quest but nothing seemed to really push him forward.
Logtar was getting to be very spoiled by both Ygraane and Blue having stoneblood potions ready when we were going to start running chain heroics. I had started Hollogos down the alchemy path, but used all of the herbs that I gathered leveling inscriptions. As I got closer to 60 and the capability of making better potions started to get more and more appealing. I made a push for mats by grinding but mostly by having guildies help out and I had my potions almost maxed out in a couple of days. Hollogos was looking better and better.
I started to heal Arathi Basin and getting more and more successful at it, eventually topping the healing charts being just a clicker, not even using heal bot yet. The grind from 60 to 70 did not seem like a grind anymore, but a welcomed break from the tanking. What also helped is that we now have several people in the guild with not just tanks, but the capability of taking my spot on runs. Also the new healers that had joined our guild kicked so much butt, that I wanted to see if I could keep up.
Slowly but surely Hollogos got to reach the upper 60s and being able to enter UK. Teague helped me with a full set of gear and I was on my way. It was tough at first, but I started clearing it as a healer consistently. I enjoyed healing more and more each day. Then Blizzard changes the game once again and makes it way easier to not just get gear but progress quicker. The dungeon system was not just handing out emblems but also experience.
Both Logtar and Hollogos were PvPing ever time the daily called for WG or AB. AV has been avoided like the plague since people seem to not grasp that turtling is not just an overall bad strategy and a waste of possibl experience on boss kills but extremely boring.
All those places that I knew like the back of my hand as a tank took a whole new meaning as a healer. Mobs that I thought were super simple to kill became my true nemesis by interrupting or silencing me. I was getting more and more encouraged by the other guildies around the 70s and we had a new little gang leveling up. No wipes, lots of laughs and gear dropping like it was going out of style. Occasional pugs will fill up our ranks and provide even more entertainment.
A week of vacation with no far away destination and cold weather created the perfect storm. I could do a push to get Hollogos about a half of level per day while still raiding with Logtar. Random dungeons quickly started to include the hated spider dungeons along with UK and Nexus.
Then a week ago I started to get queued up to Gundrak. I was surprised because I had expected to spend a lot more time doing DTK, but experience and quest related to that dungeon seem to speed up the process of leveling. I also was con
BwenBwen kicked all of our asses by getting to 80 a week before any of us. Hollogos did beat Pala, Sam, Hon, Minieme, Psycho and Buren to 80 though. Pala and Sam were very close though, I think we dinged just hours apart from each other.
A very special tanks to everyone that helped me level, without your help the grind would have been long and tedious but you guys made it a blast. Buren, Psycho, Moon, Hon and Froto’s crab for all your tanking, Sam, Bwen, Pala, Linz, Acorn and Bomb and everyone else in the guild for all your DPS and Tera and Moon for all your enchants! I swear they were not wasted 
The BoondockSaints
I don’t think that when we started this guild we realized that we were actually going to progress as much as we have. We have grown in numbers but still have the same family feel we did when it was just a dozen of us. As a guild we have gone six bosses deep into Ulduar and could probably come close to clearing it with the new gear we are all getting. Some of us have finished ToC and even getting into ICC raids. As a guild we are killing trash to get rep and a good number of us have the free rings from there.
We have a lot of fun every night on vent. We are helping people from other guild getting geared and are now on the third wave of 80s. My priest missed the second wave, but is happy healing like some 80 at 75. We are also never short on enchants and gems. More importantly we are never short on people that want to lend a hand.
We also never turn down a good PvP fight. We have made hit lists in the horde side and dominate most of our encounters! (except when we are outnumbered when there is only 5 of us on)
So now what?
Well, for the coming year while we wait for the new expansion and get ready to eventually face and kill Arthras we are going to make Froto happy and raid some more. We took a break from official raiding on December and are going back into a schedule. We are also going to continue with our farming days to keep our bank well stocked with raiding items. I also want to help Aloea and Smidgeon to their achievement seeking goals.
Raid Schedule Jan 2010
Our focus for this month will be ICC rep as well as gearing up the new 80s. Please see Froto about signing up for any 10 mans. We are going to form our 10 mans for success, we will let you know if you are ready and what you need if you are not. Our 25 mans are open to all. Please read up on the fights and watch the youtube videos before going into any raid. We required you to download and install DBM, Ventrilo and Omen if you want to raid. Contact any of the officers if you have any questions.
Raid Start Times at 8:30 unless otherwise posted in the in game schedule.
Sunday – Monday
10 Man – ICC Rep Runs
Tuesday
25 Man – Weekly Raid
10 Man – Weekly Raid
Wednesday
25 Man – OS
10 Man – Ulduar
Thursday
10 Man – Naxx
10 Man – ICC
Friday
10 Man – Naxx
10 Man – ToC
LFG Tips
I got my pug last night, after a very good experience with the new LFG feature. I had 4 consecutive runs where the DPS was excellent and the only problem was that people kept pulling agro, but that is something I can deal with and great healers did not let anyone die. In less than an hour I got the rest of the “pug” numbers to get my Perky Pug.
The road there was not an easy one, but some things I did made it easier to stomach.
Say Hello
I find it fun to see where people are from sever wise. When you say hello most people will respond and if the group is waiting for a member take the time to just chit chat and make the wait less monotonous. I have not had people drop a group when there has been a greeting, if there is none and there is a wait and no interaction people will leave. Filling a group after it has been formed can be a pain specially if someone is just going to the first boss or just want to ninja something and leave. Making conversation will lower the probability of that happening. Also try to talk about loot rules, my encounter with ninjas (they need every time instead of greed or disenchant) has been about 25% of the time. It will not make them stop but make everyone aware of why you will also start needing instead of greeding.
Help Others
Less so now, but many people are not familiar with all the features of the LFG system. People get confused when they are not automatically ported and in some cases it is simply that too many instances are launched and you cannot enter yours, instruct people to keep on trying and announce that they can join when you do get in. Make sure that if someone is not showing up, let them know that they can click on the green eye by the mini map to be ported into the instance. Be the patient person in the group and it will help set the tone.
Be Prepared
Most groups will be ready to go as soon as they can port into place. I am lucky that I go with my tank most of the time, but going as a healer has made me see that some people don’t care that you don’t have full mana or buffs before you pull. Conversing helps this, because you can fit in a, lets buff first before you start. Also if you are going to use buff food or flasks, announce it and people will be more likely to wait. Also try to leave your toon sitting by a repair person, repair after every run specially if you died during the last one. It is very easy to forget and then get stuck being dragged through an instance while gear just further degrades.
Speak Up
Even in regular heroics there are fights that people used to skip and don’t know. I have had people in gear scores higher than mine wipe in Old Kingdom simply by not hitting the right mushroom in time or at all. Ask if people know the boss if he is not a tank and spank. Also call people out. If someone is DPSing without care to threat it will hurt not just the tank but the healer. Letting the drop works sometimes, but it might also leave you stuck in a place with a boss down and without a DPS. Also after a wipe, if you know what caused it say something without pointing fingers and the group will pick up and move on; it will make the walk back actually useful.
Answer Questions
Engaging the group will make it work better. If someone has a question about a boss or something you did or skip and you know the answer, don’t wait for someone else just answer the question. It will make what you say weight a lot more if you appear to know what you are talking about.
Know when to Hush
If you bring something up, but you can make up for it (low DPS for example), let it go and continue. Harping beyond the initial pointing out of the problem will not make it go away unless you decide to kick the bad player. Be aware that doing this is not a good idea, I’ve had little success with kicking someone out and filling the spot beyond the point one boss is already down. You will end up saved and with a broken group. Filling it up will waste your time.
Know when to quit
Even though a bad player can be dragged through and they might even be thankful, do know when to quit. I have experienced that one really bad player or three medial players will make a run double the time. Cut your losses and go somewhere else. Minimize the time you spend waiting and maximize the time you are getting stuff. The reason you use to tool is to get stuff done. The rules of when you run with your guild or friends do not apply here, so learn to fold.
Need before Greed
Try to be the last one to select your loot choice. I have been surprised by how many people pass, greeding should be the norm and don’t pass it is 1-3 gold every time something drops. Not only that, enchanting mats are going for good gold in the AH or will help your GB be full. Do not believe ninjas, if you have someone need before greed, they will continue to do so. Announce to the group that you are going to need the rest of the run unless it is something that you truly don’t need and can do without. Hopefully people roll before you and you don’t run into this problem but this has been the biggest annoyance for me.
Be polite and have fun! catch some of the gear that currently is running.
Patch 3.3 LFG
Since I started playing WoW the game went from BC to WotLK and even though the changes to the game were fantastic and big nothing has changed the game like the latest feature implemented. They removed the annoyance of travel to dungeons altogether and let you earn money, mats, rep and emblems for as long as you can stomach it.
Even though there have been about 25% crappy groups, the chances of you having to group with those people again makes it a non issue. Besides the people that don’t know the fights at all, even gear seems to be a non issue in most heroics, minus of course the new content.
At first I though I was getting paired up with people with my same gear level, but that is actually just a side effect of the people on the first night who had downloaded the patch prior or had a faster connection. I’ve had some amazing groups that impressed me by their level of both play and good manners. I’ve also seen the lowest of the low. The question is now, why do I need a guild?
Raids – You will still your guild to run raids. Raids require good communication and knowing people’s play style. Even in the harder dungeons can turn into a wipe fest if people don’t communicate.
Enchants and Gems – Unless you have an unlimited amount of money and a good AH, you will have an easier time getting that shinny new gear ready for raids with a group of good crafters working together and everyone sharing the greens that are raining from the sky.
Fun groups – As much fun as it is to burn through a instance without stopping it gets mechanic and old quickly. Its nice to be able to run with the people you know when they are online. Specially now that we are all going to be so overgeared! Also with partial groups being filled so quickly, you and a couple of guildies can have tons of fun with the LFG system.
Cataclysm – I cannot wait for the new expansion and all the changes that will be attached to guild achievements. Having a solid guild going into the new expansion is going to make it 100x better.
That’s all I have for now. I am halfway to getting my pug and loving the experience.
Gank Fest
Our WoW time lately has been very hecktic trying to raid casually while we wait for the latest patch which will drop today. Most of us have been working on our alts so we have more 80s that can be easily geared just by grinding heroics, and with the promise of shinny new gear even farming ulduar. Before we get there we get to actually level those toons. My priest is almost capped on both inscriptions and alchemy now and is sitting at 69 at the moment. I will have some time off during December so it might be time to get him to 70 and have some fun healing.
One side effect of having to level toons in a PvP server is the occasional ganking. Our guild has a simple policy “See a Horde, Kill a Horde.” It little by little has made us the target of ganking… however, it is starting to taste less and less pleasurable for the gankers. When someone is getting camped our guild pulls together and heads to that area and kills as many as we can. We do get eventually overwhelmed since our server Alliance to Horde ratio during peek hours is just insane. This was not the case last night. We took over the circle of blood in Nagrand and then moved to neighboring town with little resistance. Actually had fun just killing the ganker.
Then we moved to crossroads and still no horde response. We then got a little greedy and headed to Thunderbluff to 15 man the dude there. That is when Doorhinge showed up (one of the best PvPers in our realm) and I was able to kill him once… then it was all over. We could not get back on our feet and decided to call it a night. It was tons of fun though, and now you know that if you gank one of ours, you will have to gank us all!
Dominate Naxx
Mr FrotoTank was nice enough to compile a nice list of guides for our December get new 80s geared drive. Please visit our website for links to what you need to know if you are new to Naxx.
Also don’t forget to join our facebook group, a lot more information about our past meeting and future plans there!
Hop Skip Jump
Individuals in our guild have done a lot of content from this last big patch, some even completing raids on the ToC area. Personally I have seen more content than I thought I would see this quickly. However, overall as a guild I think we have skipped too much content.
For me it all started with places that are not warrior tank friendly. Az N and Old Kingdom for example. Both fairly straight forward places now that I am over-geared for them. They are both mid 70 dungeons that should have been mastered before skipping them altogether, but it was a lot easier to do a place I enjoyed like DTK over and over.
Don’t get me wrong, some poorly structured content like Oculus should be skipped, but most of the dungeons that have been designed are pretty good training grounds for future raiders.
Now we have once again started doing the same thing. Instead of perfecting every wing in Naxx we are doing Ulduar and even H ToC raiding. Then people wonder why Ony is such a pain in the butt.
Ony is the perfect example of gear vs experience. No matter how good your gear is, if your party has not mastered movement and position awareness you will wipe there over, and over. It is already being pugged bu some people and it will be farm content soon enough, but the opportunity to learn is missed by just having an overachieving healer or tank or insane DPS “take you” through the content.
Raiding is about team mechanics, but specially about everyone doing their assigned job. Skipping content that shows you certain mechanics of the game does a huge disservice to you as a raider, and it hurt your future performance in a team. Another example of commonly skipped content is Heigan’s dance in Naxx. Overall not a bad fight, but one that people dread because it requires everyone to do something they are not used to doing… moving around.
Before you skip content on try to get into the next new shiny dungeon make sure you are at a point where you enjoy the current content you are geared and experience for. Understanding the fight mechanics is not just the raid leader’s job. Sure its fun to just say, let me know where to stand and I will fire my 9K DPS at the boss, but it does not help the group.
I have been leveling a priest and been loving the experience. As frustrating as it is to be the main target in every PvP encounter, it is also very rewarding to be able to make a difference and “save” things by getting the right heal out at the right time. There are comparable skills like rage management vs mana management, and watching threat… but it also has a lot more situational, like mobs just trowing something at you because they felt like it and interrupting you. That is not even counting someone pulling agro or standing on (yet again) the fire. Its a lot more fun than I thought it would be and will most likely ultimately make me a better tank.
Tanking New Content
I have only tanked an instance that I knew nothing about and did not get any advice one, Drak Theron Keep. Because of it, it is still my favorite instance. I discovered little things and ways of doing it along the way, and it is now something that I can do with most groups in about 20 minutes even on Heroic.
Most raids I have either watched a video online, read a guide or gone with an experienced tank and played OT. While it makes progression easier that way, it also feels like I am cheating myself a little.
As a video game player I have rarely needed a walkthrough. I have been playing Prince of Persia on the Xbox and I am amazed at how easy games have become. There are safety nets everywhere and help along the way. Wow Add ons like questhelper and DBM do the same thing. Maybe I should get burned by the fire more often so I learn where not to stand… maybe the poison should kill me quicker so I don’t stand on it in the first place.
I am amazed at the number of people that still get hit by the wall of lava in OS, and it makes me think that maybe calling the walls out in raid warning might be a bad thing rather than a good thing. The dance in Naxx is probably the best example of this mechanic, because different computers will paint that room at different intervals and there is a definite lag. If you are following someone blindly and don’t know where to stand or stop, you will get hit by a poison shower.
The more I play this game, the more I see how it mirrors real life in many ways. Managing a guild is a lot like managing a department at work. Teaching people to do things has the same parallels. Some people can learn from theory, some can learn from watching a video, most will only learn by doing.
We have people at all stages of the raiding curve at the moment and doing very well in Naxx and Ulduar but still not there with the full clears and still stumble in some bosses. Some of it is tiredness, some of these raids take long time, but most of it is knowing the content that is new to most. These is where the dancing beings.
Here is where tanking gets tricky and where I made my first mistake as a tank. If you have a DPS spec you will see content a lot sooner than as a tank or a healer.
Even though everyone says that DPS are a dime a dozen, this is not true. Sure, there are DPS out there that can do some serious damage, but DPS that can listen and help out in fights are hard to find. If a DPS warrior can cut a mob off while it is running towards a healer and take a hit and survive, you just saved a wipe. Also you get to see the fights live and see how the other tanks are doing it.
If you are lucky, the tanks on the fights you are seeing for the first time are already geared and you might end up with a new piece out of the whole experience.
You have to walk before you run, specially as a tank. Brute forcing everything by overgearing everyone and heading to the greatest and latest content will leave you scratching your head when you start paying tons on repairs on fights that seem simple. Have patience, let everyone around you learn at their pace and you will have stronger and stronger groups.
Our guild has done this and we have a very good 10 man group, bring in only a handful of friends to our 25s. It takes patience and time, but it has made progression a lot more fun. Its all about the journey, not the destination right?
The Siege of Ulduar (10 player)
Champion of the Frozen Wastes
The Spellweaver's Downfall (10 player)
Did Somebody Order a Knuckle Sandwich?
Salt and Pepper (10 player)
Call of the Crusade (10 player)
5 Coins of Ancestry
Chaos Theory
Amber Void